Couldn't have put it better myself and nothing more needs to be added.

Bring on Chelsea!!

WD

Be Loyal, Be Proud, Be Stoke

But perhaps the best news of all is the fact Stoke are completely free of any external debt. - back of the net

Although banks love that, they'll be offering huge loans now to try and cripple us.

In the not too distant future, things are going to have to even up, wages reduced and so on, just to survive. What's going to happen to the Premiership Leauge then?

I am all for free speech, but there has been so much blinkered drivel put on here by A fans this week. They are in a minority in an attempt to put a slur on our fabulous and gutsy team. This article sums it all up for me. I have been angrily frustrated with some of the bile spat out at our club this week. And looking at the style, content, grammar and spelling that comes out of the schools down south I worry more about the state of the nation!

"His attempt to demonise and stigmatise Shawcross does him no credit."

Can you elaborate on this please? Hopefully with quotes.

Perhaps if you do then you could look at your "own house" and heed your own words:

"Only somebody speaking in the heat of the moment, or without having studied the incident in slow motion, could possibly think there was anything malicious about the tackle."

Some very defensive articles on this recently. Anything to do with the "you've only got one leg" chants as Ramsey was stretchered off?

Don't worry, nobody's tarring you as dirty. Wenger said as much post-match. A personal note for you the author there, seeing as this comment likely won't be printed.

I doubt very much you will post this as it exposes how inaccurate and wrong your article is.

"In the wake of the game, there has been a lot of talk about Stoke’s style of play and whether or not sides are going out to “rough-up” Arsenal to try to knock them out of their stride.

That may be the case with some clubs, but it most certainly isn’t with Stoke".

WRONG - and I quote your own player Ricardo Fuller from The Mirror interview just 1 month ago, January 2010:

The Jamaican said: “... I don’t think Arsenal can deal with the aggressive play.
“We can also be rough and aggressive when we need to..."

So whats your answer to that?

"If we were going to try to rough up a team we wouldn’t wait until the 66th minute to be doing it, which is the moment when Shawcross and Ramsey clashed".

So you are saying that, because Ramsey had his leg shattered in two places in the 66th minute there could no way have possibly been any fouls beforehand - that doesnt even make sense does it. Unless by your own viewpoint, which only supports the notion that you are in fact reckless dirty footballers, that "roughing up" only occurs when legs are broken.

"There was no diving in recklessly, no foot raised, no studs showing; just a genuine attempt to win the ball by a Stoke player who has shown himself to be all about passion and commitment since he came to the club. Mercifully, that’s how almost every single independent pundit has seen it and called it".

WRONG - I think you'll find that if you watched Sunday Supplement, EVERY journalist on the panel discussing the incident said the challenge was highly "reckless" "wild" and unacceptable" and symptomatic of your approach to the game.

What's your answer to that?

http://www.skysports.com/tv_show/story/0,20144,12382_5991425_12382,00.ht...

Here's the link if you would like to do some proper reasearch.

"His attempt to demonise and stigmatise Shawcross does him no credit".

WRONG - I think you'll find Wenger said the tackle was unacceptable and horrendous, which it was. He never mentioned RS name nor vilified him, just commented on the reckless tackle - which by the way was off the floor. Considering what had just happened, I think Wenger was incredibly restrained. So basically you have just made that up havent you - I'm guessing to either justify your viewpoint or deflect the attention away from the dangerous tackle.

I'll finish on this. RS has previous. He's 22 years old and has now broke Ramsey's leg in two places, and Francis Jeffers ankle in 2007. Plus, when on loan playing for Antwerp in 2007 he also nearly broke another players leg who was unbelievably lucky to walk away without serious damage, and against Arsenal in 2008 he tackled Adebayor OFF THE PITCH when the ball was out of play and put Adebayor out of action for a month. So he isnt a genuine guy, who hasnt got a bad bone in his body and goes home to his mummy every night is he.
He's a reckless player with previous, who, by the age of 22 has broken TWO players legs and was lucky not to break TWO more.

I doubt you will post this for fear of being exposed.

So in your mind - Wenger should get his house in order because Gallas made a tackle? 1-tackle? won't count Roy Keane attacking yet another player in yet another tunnel. Is 2-3 other tackles in 12-years is the best you can do?

Well, let's let try this on - Ryan Shawcross is the poster child for 'that type of player'. 22-years old and he's already broken the bones in 4-players! Once at Royal Antwerp, 3-in the UK - Adebayor, Francis Jeffers and now Ramsey. Stoke have broken the bones in 2-Arsenal players in 3-seasons. A 19-year old welsh boy who plays in a french team must miss a year of football because of reckless thugs like Shawcross are allowed so much freedom on the pitch by weak referees. A towel to dry the ball??? no waonder your home record is so good - can't think of a league in the world that allows a foreign object to be used onto the match ball. Goalkeepers aren't even allowed to do that for a penalty - why is Delap allowed - weak refereeing.

You say that Arsene hasn't the right to be upset and say angry words towards Ryan????? On which drug must a manager be on - Not to be upset at seeing his 19-year old player's leg being broken? Or the fact that same team, and the same player has inflicted another massive bone crunching injury on another Arsenal player within 3-seasons? Why should he not be angry? Why should he not be seething? How on earth you can defend a reckless player like Shawcross with his history and stupid decision making is way beyond me.

Then again, you are comparing a debateable dive by Eduardo to Ramsey have his leg held together by skin and sock and not much else. Genuinely, can't see your point about what is more outrageous in football - broken legs or debatable dives in the box like Eduardo's - further evidence of the racist gutter press - Welsh boy in 'french team' having his leg broken by English boy in the 'english team' - poor poor English boy who has to die for all of our sins, the welsh boy did it on purpose, hope Ryan can recover from this etc etc - you're pathetic!

It's not about your team - or Ryan Shawcross
It's about whether the game could or should do anything about the fact that certain challenges carry the risk of injuries to other players.
Bad brokenlegs are the tip of the iceberg and thakfully very rare but every year loads of players have to retire through injuries perpetrated on them by other players.
When you talk of 4 broken legs in 1975 for Stoke you say how it cost you the league - even if that was true, why on earth would you see it in that context? It's like Arsenal fans saying but we showed bottle and went on and won and maybe we can win the league now -
What about those four Stoke players -
Was it a golden age back then when there were real hardmen and fancy foreign flickers (as Tommy Smith described Ossie Ardiles after booting him up in the air, as we like to describe committing potentially career threatening violence).
Well, after the compulsory but generally vacuous "I'd like to start by saying how terrble it is for Aaron Ramsay" as all these articles start before saying "but that Wenger's making a right fuss and he's no saint" or whatever Aaron is basically forgotten.
Qurestion being asked is what sort of a game do you want?
Even if you like a bit of violence mixed in and/or threatening agressive posturing in advance in the press or on the pitch, you shouldn't be surprised that some other people inside and outside the game think that violence should be minimised or that some people will say it's not intent that matters but outcome.

In my opinion (if you're interested) that Bill Shankley has a lot to answer for.

I am amazed you have used that link to do some proper research!!!!!!!!!!
I have just listened to it and the comment made by the first person clearly stated that Ryan Shawcross was going to kick a ball which Aaron Ramsey had been quicker to and the ball was no longer there when Shawcross's foot arrived.
Get it - Shawcross goes for the ball - not a TACKLE at all, he was going to kick the ball in front of him and Ramsey (by being slightly quicker - and I mean only SLIGHTLY - hence the contact between the two) moved it. The moment a player sets out to strike a ball their leg is in motion. There is no way they can stop that whatever the outcome.
This was not even a TACKLE so how can it be horrendous. Listen to your own evidence again - your main witness states Shawcross wa simply going to kick a ball which Ramsey then moved but unfortunately, and this can be supported by using frame by frame analysis of the incident, his leg stuck in the turf, buckled at an extreme angle (so much that some experts have suggested it was already broken at that point) and Ryan Shawcross's leg continued on and hit Aaron Ramsey's leg.
NO MALICE, NO INTENTION, NOT EVEN A FOUL (and the referee suggested that was the case by saying he would have to issue a red card because of the horrendous injury - not the horrendous tackle. He probably wanted Shawcross off the pitch otherwise the Arsenal skill boys might just have dealt out their own version of retribution.
Before you come on here moaning, look at the slow motion, listen to your expert and then reflect on the real situation.

You lot are the biggest bunch of moaners I have ever come across.

One of you makes a point above about the comments of the journos onsunday supplement and they sugest that stoke are basically a bunch of thugs...!!!
No suprise there as most southern based journo's hate stoke so not suprised about that. And dont really care. What is more important is how blind you lot are to some key facts.
1. Nearly all former players say it was an accident. Which it was. Capello says it was accident.
2. Ramsey if you watch the tackle goes in just as hard to win the ball as ryan. FACT.
3. If you lot are talking about previous for players then how about the holder of the most red cards in the prem?? Patrick....
4. Shawcrross has never been sent off or banned for yellow cards..
5. It was a 50/50 challenge that has resulted in poor ramsey having his leg broken. I hope he gets back fit soon.
6. To talk about the tackle on adebayer last year makes me laugh! You forget that adebayer smashed ryan across the knees in a far worse tackle 5 mins before!!

Get on with your season and look forward to seeing you all again at the brit next season for a good competitive game..

Here we go again - already listing this as another leg broken by Ryan Shawcross. Please look at the FACTS.
I have watched the incident frame by frame (as all the action was so fast in real time) to establish cause and there is no doubt that Ramseys leg buckled BEFORE Shawcross caught him!! A national newspaper had the photograph of this point which was prior to the collision. Ramsey lunged for the ball and his studs dug into the ground and his ankle buckled. It was only then that Shawcross caught him with his shin.

Any one who doubts this should look into the incident in slow motion.

Once this is understood then the rest of your vitriolic comments are meaningless.

Even the England manager has given his OK to Ryan Shawcross. How much more expert comment do you people need before you see the facts!!!!!!!!!!

4 days later and your still crying about this. It's old news.

Who cares what any of these columnists write. Everyones got their own opinion.

it might be excepable to martin smith for shawcross to break peoples legs but it is not acceptable to genuine sports fans this young lad is a thug in football boots as well as ramsey he has broken franny jeffers ankle an d stamped on adebeyore when he was of the field of play a team represents there manager and pullis was a nasty piece of buisseness in his playing days and has carried into his managerial days arsenal football club wil be in the top flight forevever teams like stoke come and go you will be back in the lower leagues when teams sus you out and you can all kick anyone you like.

I thought BORING, BORING ARSENAL referred to the team. I now realise that it related to the boring, repetitive drivel churned out by Shepherd Arsene and his sheep.

Whilst those of us who actually witnessed this incident first-hand saw it as an unfortunate accident, the Arsenal version of events has been analysed, pulled apart and distorted beyond belief.

Trust your own eyes. I do & saw that Tottenham brought the best support to The Brit last year.

You never heard of mind games ? ..... you know, those things alex ferguson wins time and time again against Wenger ?

A quick look at the opta stats will show you we've committed fewer fouls against Arsenal than most teams .

Stoke are a rubbish team, playing terrible, outdated football, in a terrible stadium, half empty with a no atmosphere whatsoever.

I mean really, a team that that takes 30 seconds drying a ball with a towel every time they get a throw in. That's pathetic. The whole of Europe laugh at you.

Lets hope you get relegated because you belong in the lower leagues with the rest of the limited, journeymen cloggers.

PS will somebody tell Pullis he looks like a total [removed] in that cap.

I see Owen Coyle has also added that Ryan certainly didn't mean to injure Ramsey. Anyone with eyes could see that it was a 50/50 that sadly Ramsey came out worse off in. It is very unfortunate but that is all, it is impossible for it to be a tackle when neither player has control of the ball and therefore the collision (not tackle) was accidental.

I wonder just how many people in the game will have to back up the facts that Ryan didn't intentionally hurt Ramsey before Wenger and his Goons admit defeat?

"He doesnt have a bad bone is his body, no really", ""its just a coincidence that he has injured so many players".

"He doesnt mean to do it", "its just that the other players are so much faster and he is such a committed player, yes he is more committed and obviously slower that all the other players currently in the PL, he has to be, right?"

"well how else can you explain a player maming so many players at only 22??"

"its also the good ole english grit, innit? thats what the problem is, he has no intent to break legs but he is compelled to fly in wildly based on that said grit"

"the broken legs are just a by product of the grit, determination and committment, so Arsenal supporters you better deal with it because thats how the English play football"

"Arsenal fans, why do you moan so much and also your silly French, self righteouss manager?!"

"I mean, who else would moan about having a player lunge like an idiot at one of their players, breaking his legs, even though the player who lunged complained about a tackle by Cesc in the same match"

"Come on, are you guys serious? having 3 broken legs in 4 years is nothing to be upset about, even if it has happened to no other team".

"Its your managers fault! your players are too soft and too quick, so why are you blaming shawcross for breaking Ramsey's leg?"

"If Wenger would buy some of the good ole english ox's like shawcross, at worst it wouldve been a bruised shin, you get it?"

Only a simple minded, self righteous person could be upset with what Arsenal have had to go through. We have absolutely no right to be upset and as for Wenger, who the hell does he think he is to complain?! right stoke supporters?

The English bias, racism and down right stupidity seems to know no bounds.

RAMSEY, ARSENAL!!!!

I know from playing football for nearly 20 years that just because you attempt to kick a ball and someone takes it that is no excuse. Anyone knowing that if someone else is approaching the ball at speed they can stop their action of kicking as it will cause harm. Following through is not good practice and very dangerous. It is clear that Shawcross has a problem with tackling properly shown by previous examples. Secondly, if he had got to the ball first where is he kicking it. Ramsey was on the half way line and it looks like Shawcross was going to boot it anywhere. There was absolutely no need to try and win that ball like he did and that is what Wenger was annoyed about. It did not need to happen. He never said anything about Ryan's character but was absolutely right in the judgement of the tackle. On a final note, there is no team that plays better when they are 'roughed up', it's obvious that any team is put off their stride when fouls are comitted. So why then do players not say this before every game they play but seemingly only against Arsenal?

I never thought I would approach a point where the freedom of an opinion should be restricted but a time has now come to avoid any further ridiculous Arsenal scorn to be poured on this site. It is not worthy in any form for it to continue. I would not normally vilify opposing supporters for having a view but there comes a point where it all has to stop. Never have I seen such a blinkered lack of objective comment. It is clear that the ramblings of the befuddled and laughable Wenger have worked their way down into some of the fans. I say some as I am confident that the majority of Arsenal fans are wincing in embarrassment at what is being said by the vocal minority and particularly Wenger who has for some time simply not been credible within the game as a commentator of what goes on. Since saturday the Stoke voice has been one of compassion and common sense and it has been greeted with Southern orientated bile. How short peoples memories are about the pretty football their team plays when only a few short seasons ago the same fans supported a team managed by Whinger that sported Viera, Keown, Adams etc that had one of the worst violent conduct/disciplinary records ever - wasnt such a beautiful game then was it? Go back to your own site and whine on to your hearts content failing which and it is hard for me to say it but this site needs moderating as the comments are offensive and provocative (I know the comment about Ryan committing suicide was edited before it went out)and it will ultimately bring adverse and less moderate responses from Stoke fans as there is only so much it is fair to tolerate

When are you braindead idiots going to accept that it was just an unfortunate mistimed challenge. They happen.

When are you branidead idiots going to accept that several of your players this season and previous have gone out with intent to injure a player, namely Gallas and Diaby. Lets not forget Fabregas' cowardly challenge from behind on Pugh on Saturday either.

When are you braindead idiots going to accept that not all teams have the money to make a nice tippy tappy footballing team and thus have to largely rely on commitment and team-work to get by in the Premier League.

When are you braindead idiots going to accept that Wenger is just using this whole situation to try and get even better treatment from refs for your team of horrible cheats.

We'll see you next season.

getting a bit fed up with reading rubbish from arsenal fans-how apt that you support the gooners cos most of you are talking out of your arsenal and have a manager whose first name sums him up.Ryan had every right to go for a 50/50 ball which very unfortunately for young Ramsey resulted in a terrible injury which i sincerely hope he recovers from very quickly.Arsenal have to accept it is just extremely bad luck just as we had back in the 70's when we had our best chance ever of winning the championship and as Martin rightly says we didn't go round blaming other teams of having it in for us

"Stoke are a rubbish team, playing terrible, outdated football, in a terrible stadium, half empty with a no atmosphere whatsoever.

I mean really, a team that that takes 30 seconds drying a ball with a towel every time they get a throw in. That's pathetic. The whole of Europe laugh at you.

Lets hope you get relegated because you belong in the lower leagues with the rest of the limited, journeymen cloggers.

PS will somebody tell Pullis he looks like a total [removed] in that cap."

Stoke are rubbish team = wrong, look at the Premier League.

playing terrible = wrong, First defeat of 2010 idiot.

outdated football = wrong i've never seen some of the tatics Stoke use (Rory Delap throw, as an Arsenal fan you should appreciate this tatic...Fool)

Terrible stadium, half empty with no atmosphere = I'm not even a Stoke fan but have been to a few games this season and last, and all i can say is what a fantastic ground and atmosphere (arguably one of the best), your arguement is full of fail and you just come across as yet another inaccurate moaner.

I hope Ramsay makes a speedy and full recovery because what a talent, and similar to Ryan, chin up, play well tonight if he gets the chance show them how professional and commited you are.

"PS will somebody tell Pullis he looks like a total [removed] in that cap."
haha pathetic.......

You Stoke fans are unbelievably thick.

You are MISSING THE POINT.

Arsenal fans, Wenger and most oundits arent saying RS meant to intentionally break AR leg.

Arsenal fans, Wenger and most pundits are saying that the tackle was RECKLESS and DANGEROUS.

And if you go into tackles reckless and dangerous then this is going to happen and therefore you must suffer the consequences of your actions.

IT DOESNT MATTER whether it was intentional.

IT DOESNT MATTER whether he has done it before.

IT DOESNT MATTER whether it was an accident.

It was an accident waiting to happen beacuse of your mentality of "they dont like it up em"

RS must be accountable for the consequences of his reckless and dangerous challenge.

THAT'S THE POINT YOU DULLARDS.

"Since saturday the Stoke voice has been one of compassion and common sense and it has been greeted with Southern orientated bile."

Just like this article I presume, huh and the countless others on this site.

I would put down Arsenals bad disciplinary record on a whole to racism as it is obvious that england is one of the most covertly racist contries on earth. And also these player were tought by how many legs did they break? NO one is saying you cannot play tough but you cannot play like a maniac. This kid a 22 has almost ended 4 peoples careers.

Keep defending your player, its only a matter of time before he breaks another leg and we will hear the same old bull "he doesnt have a bad bone in his body". Well the record says otherwise.

You cannot be serious!

Can the editing team please block any further comment on this subject - from either side. We have got other things on our mind - a cup quarter is nearly upon us. The whole thing is long over. Let's zip ut up or it could get ridiculously out of hand. Please, site controllers, issue a note and keep the peace from now on.

Roll on Sunday when the football can start again! (and good luck Ryan, tonight!)

Submitted by Arsenal fan on Wed, 03/03/2010 - 15:57.

you are a tunnell visioned clown. you need to grow up and get your head from down your ar*e.
nothing you say makes sense, you sound less mature than a secondary school child.
grow up.

Only a pathetic individual would write this garbage, this comment shows the limited mentality of the majority of Arsenal supporters who honestly believe that they and their team are superior to every one else.

In all my life of watching football,i have never heard so much drivel coming from a team renown for a soft centre.I realy hope Peter Coastes sues that french slug and show him up for what he is,a slimy cheating misfit of cociety

Get well soon Aaron and dont forget who helped you and who didnt.

SLIMY SLIMY ARSENAL

WELCOME TO THE BRIT THIS IS GONNA HURT

Nice to see your sticking to facts...lol...half empty?? 28000 attendance for every premier league game and the grounds capacity is....erm..28000, oh yeah that means its full. No atmosphere, what when compared to the emirates where the players are louder than the fans. We are the loudest fans in the prem and thats official.

Outdated, maybe, but are we not still not picking up points and looking at our 3rd season in the prem, oh yeah and we're still in the cup...so it might be outdated as far as your concerned but we're doing quite well off it so there. Just because you lot think everyone should play the same type of footie.

You are pathetic, do some research before spouting such bollox...but yeah we do use a towel for every throw-in so at least you got 1 thing correct.
Well done you!!!

First off how can a player who in 100 games has only received 1 red card be classed as one of those players??

As for Ryan breaking Jeffers ankle, what happened was Jeffers ruptured ligaments in his ankle, yeah it was after a tackle from Ryan but how many players has that happened too, loads i bet.

The Adebayor incident last season is a joke, Adebayor took chunks out of Ryan all the way through the game and even after the incident Adebayor still played for another 7 minutes during which he ran the width of the pitch to in-bed his elbow into Ryans face while challenging for a header. I'm also pretty sure Adebayor didn't break anything.

I am gutted for Ramsey and i was really upset by what happened its the worst thing i've seen live at a match it was hard to explain to my 6 year old son who was with me what had happened. After watching it a few times Ramsey goes in just as hard as Shawcross, infact Ramsey actually jumps into it, gets to the ball a millisecond before Ryan, his studs bed themselves in the turf and Ryan contact his leg just below the shin pad but they could go into that situation a hundred times again and no one would come out hurt, its just one of those things that happen in football and always will as long as it a contact sport.

Coming from the club that spawned the likes of Viera, Petit, Adams & Keown all the whingeing coming from these arrogant Londoners is hard to stomach. In all my years watching football I've never seen a player do as much fouling as Patrick Viera.

Also just think about it - if we all played the 'proper' way like Arsenal the English premiership game would soon become pretty boring.

Excellent article Martin - your comments are spot on.

3 broken legs in 5 years...put your carpet away you always use for your perfect (yawn), total (yawn) football, grow a pair below and a nice thick spine and learn how to tackle for gawd' sake geezers!

Joking aside, appalling injury and sincere wishes to Mr Ramsey but there are lessons to be learned even on his part. You can't lunge into a tackle at full speed to simply 'nick' the ball away from your opponent and then ground your legs stationary to where the ball was and your opponent is arriving and not expect to be hurt.

Tackling is an art...win the ball (timing) and protect yourself (fairly) from your oncoming opponent i.e. not leaving legs grounded/stationary and using your top half (arms etc) to protect yourself in some form with your opponent.

Or keep whining and whingeing about all these injuries you keep getting....you have to learn to tackle and when you do, do it fairly...(Veira, Gallas, Diaby and not forgetting the Prem's most unsung most petulant thug....Saint Cesc)!

I'm sure the exciting talent that is Aaron Ramsey will soon return as good as new and hopefully fulfill his incredible potential..but you ask him what he could have done differently and he may just say 'not tackle so naively' next time...blunt, possibly harsh depending on what generation you got brought up in but very true!

PS Can't believe all the Arsenal replies on a Stoke website...we know unemployment is up in and around London but i'm more staggered at how many 'Arse-ites' can do the simple maths question you have to do to submit your post's haha...then again your club is that much in debt you have had a lot of practice learning big numbers :)

Right time to submit my post...just need to ring Aurfer Fowler to ask what's 11+2 so i can press submit!